I Don’t Care About Your Degree
Our professional world has experienced a proliferation of acronyms to distinguish an individual’s qualifications. It used to be there were only a few: MBA, MD, PhD, Esq., CPA. Those were the really relevant ones.
Now, every time I get an email I’m introduced to a whole new kind of alphabet soup. CIPP, CFP, CCC, IDFK, MSU, LIE. There are so many that even Google can’t keep up with it. Folks can get credentialed for anything these days.
News flash: I don’t care. I really don’t. The letters don’t mean anything at all to me. They don’t impress. And to be clear – you shouldn’t give a crap about my degrees or certifications. These “certifications” aren’t helpful in and of themselves. They don’t clarify. All they do is annoy the pixels on my screen that have to light up to display the letters. On the flip side, there are things I find much more important.
As usual, let me tell you a story. One time, in band camp… wait… focus.
A headhunter called me about a sweet role at a technology company. Great company. Great role. I shot him a copy of my resume.
“Hey Mike, I got your resume but you must have sent a working draft accidentally.”
“Oh. Sorry. What’s wrong?”
“It’s missing some of your educational background. Your MBA isn’t listed on here.”
“Yeah. Probably because I don’t have one.”
“What?”
“I don’t have my MBA. I hope Snarky Software, Inc. will be more interested in my accomplishments and what I’ve delivered moreso than a piece of paper I received by attending class and doing homework.”
Apparently they weren’t. The headhunter called back a few days later and recounted a story of how bitterly divided the company was about bringing me in. Some folks strongly supported interviewing me despite my “deficient” educational background (the headhunter actually used that word verbatim – he didn’t have his CTH degree – Certified Tactful Headhunter). Others at the company demanded only to see candidates with an MBA. In the end, they declined my candidacy.
“No problem.” I told the headhunter. “If a company places that much value on a piece of paper on a wall and can’t see past that to evaluate real world impact and accomplishments, I probably wouldn’t be happy working there.” (Footnote – said company later ended up conducting mass layoffs and almost imploded).
After that near-interview, I went on to have a great time and learn a ton at several world-class organizations. I worked with some amazing teams and we delivered a lot of bottom-line impact. I have no regrets whatsoever that that interview didn’t work out.
I learned a lot from that experience. The most important lesson for me was that it doesn’t matter what pieces of paper are on a person’s wall. The letters following their name mean they attended classes and seminars somewhere. And sure, that took a lot of effort to earn those pieces of paper and letters. The really important thing is WHAT HAVE THEY DONE WITH WHAT THEY’VE LEARNED?
If the answer to the above question is “not much” then I don’t want them on my team nor do I want to be a member of theirs. Business isn’t about letters and papers and prestige – it’s about IMPACT.
Me? I’m hiring for impact. I could care less if they have a degree or certification as long as they can get the job done and do so in an ethical and distinctive manner. If they can do that, that’s all that matters. They might be called “Doctor” but I’m more interested in if it’s Dr. Doolittle or Dr. Einstein. Having the letters without the substance is the business equivalent of being Milli Vanilli.
Look past the letters and see the person. See their capabilities for what they are before you judge them for what is or isn’t hanging on their wall. Correspondingly, if you’re out there hanging your hat on the letters after your name, ask yourself how those letters have helped you contribute to the improvement of your organization. Once you can articulate “I have XYZ degree and by using it I delivered A, B, and C improvements” you’ll be in a much better position to land that job you’re interested in.
As a post-script: If you’re really interested in building your own skills and truly having impact in your organization, I encourage you to attend our upcoming free webinar on Universal Business Skills. It will be well worth your time.
– Mike Figliuolo at thoughtLEADERS, LLC
I once had a company “bitterly divided” about hiring me because I wear an earring. So, I agree that you should look at the impact the hire can make.
On the other hand, many of those “letters” (especially professional certifications) demonstrate a proficiency in certain basic skills required for specialized professions.
I don’t care if the guy did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night, I’d prefer a M.D. performing the operation.
Plus, some of these certifications are damn hard to get so it’s OK for the person to show them off.
I’m just saying…
Rory M Wohl, CISA, PMP
You know I love the earring and the fact that you deliver impact makes you doubly attractive to me (you’re probably blushing right now).
Do you know what they call the guy who graduated last in his class at medical school? Doctor.
Fair point on some certifications are very hard to get and folks do deserve the letters they earned but, as I stated, it’s more important to me (and you laying there on the operating room table) what they can do with what they learned and the impact they can have. I’d rather have the guy who didn’t get those last 3 credit hours do my emergency tracheotomy if he’s the most competent guy around rather than the fella who was last in his class but got those three magical letters.
Impact. Results. If you have the letters and the results, we’re cool… Letters alone without impact or results? Not so much…
I see your point, but I agree with Rory. There are industries where you can’t even get a foot in the door without the proper certifications so they establish credibility. Would you want to board your next airline flight with someone who got all their experience from MS Flight Simulator?
So I work in IT, but I also want to show that I understand the business side of insurance, so I carry around the CPCU designation and it was no easy thing to achieve. The trip to Hawaii for the CPCU (Certified Property & Casualty Underwriters) conference was an added bonus, but mostly it is great to understand the P&C insurance business. It's on my business cards and on my e-mails, but only for the value of being approachable on business issues. By the way, I still agree that designation or degree by itself does not mean you will be successful. Our CTO came from a two year local school, yet has been very successful. It's what you do on a day to day basis that adds value to the business. The fancy degree or designation may be required to step in the door at some large companies, but it is your work that proves you out in the long run. I'm working on another certification for IT Architecture at Carnegie Mellon, but not for the tacked on letters. Even if you are successful today, adding more knowledge can add to your value to the business. I also encourage others to work towards designations because of the knowledge power that it adds.
Joe, CPCU
Yay! I started a controversy and touched some nerves!
@navy86 – fair. It gets you in the door or a seat at the table. Beyond that, I think @ctoys has nailed it and is spot on with the point about impact.
@ctoys – thanks for the perspective. Very well said.
I’d like to ask that all readers please mark today on your calendar… A Navy guy just admitted that an Army guy was right.
I am confused. Does Rory’s initials indicate he is a pimp?
The hardest class was Street Corners 403 – Location, Location, Location.
Actually, PMP is the Project Manager Professional designation (http://www.pmi.org).
And the CISA is pronounced SIS-A not SISSY, Steve 🙂 (Certified Information Systems Auditor – http://www.isaca.org)
A Navy guy just admitted that an Army guy was right.
Actually, my post was quoting ctoys and that’s who I was agreeing with. If he’s an Army guy, that’s just collateral damage.
I’ll agree with you Army jokers when you actually think sanely on something – and in this case, you are. (LOL)
I just like the image attached to the blog entry. Nice touch.
BTW: Let’s not mix technical certifications with business certifications. Technical certs (Microsoft, for example) refer to a candidate’s knowledge of in a very specific field, while business certifications seem to attempt to substitute for experience. Does having your PMP mean that you can LEAD a team? Not by itself.
@Anonymous – I concur. Sure there are technical certifications that are required to do a job (like I’m not letting ANYONE without an M.D. operate on me). I’m not disputing the importance or value of those certifications. Your second point nails it though – MBA, PMP, etc. do not always confer the full skills and knowledge needed to be effective in the business world.
I agree with what you say on most jobs and for a majority of employment situations. I however have both a bachelor’s in social work and a master’s in social work. I have 15 yrs or so of experience in the mental health field and I want to that to matter more than my degree but I do want people in this field to be trained in a certain way. People are already hard to figure out with training anyway. I guess I just had to point out that some people in certain situations need to have training. Just a thought. In technology however I think experience is key and the degree should only be a minor consideration.
Great post, Mike. Too many managers place too much value on letters, and not enough on the people.
My caveat of course, is that I totally agree that there are certain letters that need to be obtained in order to prove one’s worth in some fields, especially medicine. (But even that isn’t a guarantee – there are some bad practitioners of medicine out there, unfortunately)
In the IT field, the perceived value of the certification has dwindled drastically, in my opinion. Too many “paper” MCSEs, etc. For too many certs, all you have to do is pass a multiple-choice test. At least Cisco has you ACTUALLY FIX something in a lab as part of their cert, if I recall correctly.
My point is – place value on people and what they can do. Those that immediately dismiss someone for not having enough letters behind their name could very well be missing out on a stellar performer.
I’ll start this post by saying, I work at a college so there may be some bias. However, I do agree… results, results, results. Before I worked here, I did a lot of recruiting and when you are hiring, especially techies, you have to look at each individual and take in the whole person. While degrees are a starting point to help distinguish from the masses, they are not the only deciding factor. The same with certifications and professional designations… they may get your resume distinguished from others but a hiring manager is doing themselves a disservice if they don’t look at accomplishments. When recruiting, I went out of my way to look for people who didn’t look like me (old, white fart) I looked for the kids with long hair and piercings, women geeks, internationals, minorities. Some of the most talented geeks I have known through the years were self-taught and brilliant. However, with lots of chairs to fill, a good starting place to find talent is people with degrees and certifications.
@Assets – I wholeheartedly agree that people need training and they need to demonstrate competency in the work they do. In your case I’d weigh your 15 years of practical experience exponentially more valuable than the certifications. I think the point about certifications are good for ensuring a base level of competency, there are other ways to develop those skills. In the end what really matters is the ability to perform the job and do it well.
Once established in an organization, I would hope that the letters lose any significance. You and I shared a company in the past that had its moments of focusing on accomplishments rather than pedigree. Let’s say we avoid a digression, though! The letters are typically a response to the shortcomings of the hiring process as you experienced. The inability to assess/communicate accomplishments leads to shortcuts. The good candidates will communicate their skills indicated by the letters. Empty shirts will point to the letters as the evidence.
@Big E – I love the concept of actually FIXING something before you’re certified. I had the same experience in the Army – you couldn’t just take a test to be qualified on tank gunnery – you actually had to shoot and hit the targets. Same concept applies here.
@Dave Watts – your comment isn’t biased at all. I love how you’ve found success finding talent in “nontraditional” places. Great model.
@Matthew – great observation on the letters being a shortcut to assessment. And you’re right, the shortcuts lead to errors sometimes.
Mike,
Great post! I can’t add too much more to what has already been discussed here (but I’ll try! :)).
I attended Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo, CA – a state school with a top 5 reputation in undergraduate Computer Science programs on the West Coast. I never counted on my CSC degree from there to be the sole reason someone brought me in to interview. However, I do agree that for ‘fresh outs’, the degree can be a starting point to ‘jump off’ from.
Interestingly, some other highly touted universities (Cal Berkeley for example) had candidates (in my experience interviewing them) that were too theoretical, as opposed to the practical candidates I saw from my alma mater, where ‘Learn by Doing’ is the teaching philosophy.
When I was last interviewing candidates for an intern position I had open at a previous company, I saw lots of good ‘paper resumes’, but in the end, I ended up choosing a young man who had average grades, but who had done a TON of extra-curricular work related to our project area. He was also the most personable, *passionate*, and energetic of the candidates I’d spoken with.
He was an *outstanding* intern, and went well above the expectations we had set for him.
So, long story short, I believe there is no substitute for ‘fit’ in an organization/team, and a degree (or grades) only tell part of the story.
@Guy thanks for the comment. Great story. I love your point on PRACTICAL EXPERIENCE. Theory is good, don't get me wrong. The thing is, if it's never applied to drive results, it's nothing more than a high falootin' conversation between some folks who are just trying to impress with the size of their brains. Thanks for reading & contributing.
Mike:
Your provocative statement deserves a thoughtful response. Most of those who responded rightfully indicate that certification is a form of power. The danger in this power is that it tends to self-dilution. In other words, eventually the form of the "certs" is preferred over the actual substance – hence your early experience looking for a job. Our working world demands form, and quality people always will supply the substance – it is the right thing to do. The philosopher and thought-leader Matt Crawford has a lot to say on this topic. Bloggers are invited to dig deeper through my paper on "certified incompetence" available at http://www.trainingdhughes.com/Extras/Article-TheDangerOfFormOverSubstance.html.
David Hughes
Exton, PA
I 100% agree with you. Some of the most brilliant people I know don't have degrees. They work hard, and concentrate on learning "real world skills." Some of the dumbest people I know hang their hat on their degrees alone. They can't carry on a conversation let alone get any work accomplished.
Great post Mike. Glad you pointed back at it today.
I wanted to respond to the comment that you need a sequential priority list. I think the idea is good, but go see the problem of micro-managing. Leading is not about telling others how to do it and in what order, it's about supporting them to do the work needed to be done. Circumstances change and thus so do priorities. Chaining your team to a sequence would require them to come back to you for any change request, even minor ones.
Also, there is an issue of immediate crises, long term fundamental but not urgent goals, and then small things. Some crises must be dealt with, others are too minor and should be ignored. Leave time in every day to address some fundamental, low urgency, but high priority tasks to be pared down, bit by bit.
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The HR boffin is looking for a “safe” and fast way to recommend candidates to the hiring manger who is looking for a safe and fast way to pick a candidate. What could be faster than a certification in the relevant subject from a recognized school? Even if you recommend a candidate who doesn’t work out, you have the “safe” answer of “He (or she) had a degree in exactly what we needed done”.
Actually reading a resume for accomplishments is neither fast or “safe”.
Agree with Mike, even though my Ivy League degree and Ph.D. tells me not to…:) The challenge, as someone who has hired will know, is that certs are 100% verifiable. Narratives about accomplishments and impact given in the hiring process are merely claims waiting for corroborating evidence. Assessing those claims is a very tricky thing to do well and most HR folks are not that good at it. There are forms of social science behavioral interviewing, even criminological interviewing, that do a good job at probing for BS in narrated behavioral claims. But very few are trained in these types of conversational techniques….